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VanishingTribe's avatar

"As the Russia-Ukraine crisis heats up, we have no idea whether American leadership is telling the truth."

Truth is irrelevant to the regime. Only narrative and hidden policy goals matter. If a regime mouthpiece is talking, you should just assume they're lying.

Its Just Me's avatar

Put Boot and Farkas at the tip of the spear in any conflict and see how fast they sue for peace.

Don't we have enough of our fathers, sons, brothers, uncles and grandfathers in national cemeteries? Don't we have enough men walking around without an arm or a leg to promote someone else's vision of 'freedom"?

Valkyrie's avatar

If the sacrifice kept America free and prosperous, I would give all. But everything gained has been lost and vets are left begging the VA (a work welfare organization that every now and then provides healthcare by mistake) for help and those who have lost loved ones are left with a hole in their lives that cannot be justified.

TBD's avatar

And they are betrayed by a government that waged a four year insurrection against its own executive and used COVID and rioting as a weapon.

wombatlife's avatar

The fact that the establishment has the hubris to beat the drums for another military conflict within half a year of disastrous route is depressing AF.

Valkyrie's avatar

Policy goal or not, America has proved over the last 20 years that other than the First Gulf War, we never go in to win with a clear decisive victory with lasting impact. Oh trust me, we CAN...but....this is more to do with money than anything.

America goes to war in order to feed the industrial military complex, launder money to their friends who in turn grease the palms of the politicians and keep that teet flowing as long as possible no matter how many body bags are sent home and disabled vets return to be left for dead by the VA.

It has ZERO to do with a policy goal and more to do with how we now unable to conduct the entire operation and the lack of support for vets who come back from these wars.

We are in no position from any angle to get involved. It is the anvil that will finally sink America.

BBQWhales for Lunch's avatar

We havent won a war in 60 years. Meanwhile, all our Military have uniforms with a chest full of ribbons and our 1st Woman Admiral is a Transgender. Its pathetic. Even Trump looked at our Generals - "Hello, we have been in Afghanistan a 4th world country for 22 years and you guys cant defeat it? You're a bunch of babies and pooosies". With an $800 Billion annual Budget - cut it by 2/3s and lets move on.

Valkyrie's avatar

Yeah I have seen how the sausage is made...no more of our treasure to be spent anywhere outside our borders.

Science is Political 2.0's avatar

really PATHETIC .. this is because of the PURGE within our own military which has gone fully WOKE.

JACk's avatar

The Ukrainian / Russian conflict (war) is a US policy goal. The US has pushed for war to feed the gluttonous Military Industrial Complex. This has been true since the fall of the USSR. Truthfully before; the US has been meddling in Ukraine far longer though. The US backed the likes of nationalists Stepan A. Bandera enough to sow dissent and internal strife with the goal of destabilizing the USSR and then Russia.

The US has been expanding NATO often repurposing former Soviet bases in the process. The US does not care about its previous commitments. The US has no clear objectives. Nor does the US fully grasp the unique position Ukraine plays in Russian history.

In Russian and Ukrainian the name "Russian" (Русский and Російський) means "Rus of Kyiv". In many ways Kyiv is to Russia what Jerusalem is to Jews. Russian ties to Kyiv are not as overt as Jewish ties are to Jerusalem, but they are strong and powerful nonetheless and over 1000 years old. When Putin says there is no difference between the Russian and Ukrainian people it is not just hyperbole. Russian nationalism, starts with the founder of Kyiv and the Kievan Rus from the 9th Century. They have long ties to Ukraine. Russia does not see Ukraine the same as it sees other countries. Russia feels it is the guardian of Slavic culture or Viking/Slavic culture. This is especially true of Ukraine.

Russia has also stated since WWII, the next conflict will not be conventional. They know they cannot go toe-to-toe with the US in a kenetic war. Russia is prepared psychologically to go nuclear like few other countries. It has the means to do so like no other country. Also, revelations from former Soviets like Ken Alibek show the Russians have a large biological capability that they would use as well.

The US has cynically used Ukraine to get at Russia with little actual regard for Ukraine.

It doesn't matter that Russian aggression in Crimea and the Donbas have done more to forge a Ukrainian nationality than most other events since the Holodomor. It doesn't matter that Ukraine has a right to be a sovereign nation regardless of how Russia struggles with "mommy / daddy" issues with its identity. The US is not acting in Ukraine's interest nor with true appreciation for the fire it is playing with.

The combined greed, hubris, and ignorance leading the US to war is staggering. We should be using sophisticated, nuanced diplomacy instead of hamfisted caricatures little better than Rocky and Bullwinkle cutouts of Boris and Natasha to inform our policy back by naked greed.

The US needs to stay out of Ukraine especially in the way it has inserted itself over the decades since WWII and even more since the fall of the USSR. The US approach is going to open a hellfire no one wants.

BBQWhales for Lunch's avatar

America is in the Business of War: Add it to everything else: Abortion Mills, Harvesting and Selling Baby Body Parts, Human Trafficking, Opioids, Trannys and Pedophiles with Big Govt, Big Tech, Big Banks, Big Pharma and Color Revolutions and Big Wars Forever. Im an American, living in Asia and prefer the China CCP to America now. Thats how bad it is. And Russia? They are more American now then USA. You got a big job ahead of you - are you up for it. Or just another "Well, I voted Republican".

TBD's avatar

Ccp is worse but the left is clearly moving towards the same semi free market/ totalitarian hybrid model.

Science is Political 2.0's avatar

CCP and XI .. are refusing to call Putin's invasion and INVASION.. so what does that imply about XI?

JACk's avatar

There are a few milestones that are key to how the US got to this point. Several happened under Woodrow Wilson. Many came as the US squared off against the USSR. In the process of defeating the Soviets, the US became what it fought. Fear and profiteering are prevalent. Freedoms and Rights were given up in the name of security and order. The Patriot Act is vile. Now, the US has a corrupt global patronage system built on the framework of alliances used to defeat Communism. Yes the US has a lot to do.

BBQWhales for Lunch's avatar

We've come along way. We had 2,000 years of Kings, Lords and Serfs, then 245 Years of Democracy and Prosperity. As a direct result of (Clinton) not enforcing Fed Anti-Trust Laws - we now have the largest accumulation of wealth and power in history - Big Everything. Well, they own 80% of the planet, have bankrupted the Global Financial System and have now decided to just sieze it all. You got Mfg Election, Mfg Virus, Mfg Vaccines, Mfg Lockdowns and Mfg Depopulation toward a reduced Mfg Serfdom. Ever heard of the Great Reset and World Economics Forum. Get informed, you're missing the Biggest Coup in the World by Global Feudal Lords and its going to Fail. :)

JACk's avatar

The Great Reset and WEF are no surprise. Soros has many books and essays outlining his vision as does Klaus Schwab. There is no missing the coup. We are all living it.

TBD's avatar

Which books? What is their game plan according to those books?

JACk's avatar

Klaus Schwab has around 43 books, essays, and co-authored reports.

Here is a start for KS

1. COVID-19: The Great Reset

2. The Great Narrative (The Great Reset)

3. The Fourth Industrial Revolution

George Soros has at least 14 books and over 234 essays. You can find many listed on Soros's website:

https://www.georgesoros.com/books/

The World Economic Forum (founded by Klaus Schwab) has many videos describing their vision for the future. They don't hide it. "You will own nothing and you will be happy."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4zUjsEaKbkM

They make many nice sounding statements. When you get into the details though it quickly descends into control, transhumanism, collectivist visions of utopia, and eugenics. They are anti-liberty, anti-God, anti-national sovereignty, and pro collectivist corporatism to by-pass national sovereignty and suppress individual rights. Then it gets dark. You don't have to get into any conspiracies. You just have to listen to them and see who they hang out with and see what they are doing and saying. They will tell you. They will show you. They are proud of themselves.

Science is Political 2.0's avatar

I agree with most of what you are saying: yes BOTH sides of the so called ISLE.. RINOS, NEO CONS and Dems have been war mongers for ages. BUSH who under Cheney's leadership.. yes. Cheney dragged us over there. IF we were going to send troops it should be to our southern Border which is hemorrhagic in both directions.

JCBird's avatar

Thank You Techno

signcut's avatar

NATO is unimportant in this scenario; Russia, the US, and they know that they are not willing, or even really capable, of dealing with Russia. Russia doesn't really want to get into armed conflict with the US, but is more capable of dealing with this situation if it comes to that than we are; their military is not a shell, with feckless and incompetent leadership, and an even less capable CinC.

The problem is that the dolts in State might not know or understand this, as they have continually showed how clueless they are, and how easily pushed around. Perhaps they think that this is their big chance to 'make their bones', or some such idiocy; that is what we (as a country) have been saddled with. It may even be that they are not trying to "poke the bear", but simply grandstand, and are not be smart enough to realize that Russia doesn't bluff much when they believe (rightly or not) that their security is being threatened.

To boot, this simply pushes Russia and China closer together, as if things weren't bad enough already. Let's not mention how aggressive China has been with the current resident of the White House regarding Taiwan; the master diplomat sure is showing his butt, and we will be the ones who pay for it, literally and figuratively...

smh

Daniel's avatar

Sorry, I believe Putin way before I believe one word our government has to say about anything. And I do mean ANYTHING! What a shame. I haven't believed them since Vietnam and 50,000 of our children died. And I've been right every single time. I don't believe them about 9/11 either. Our government was taken over by evil many decades ago.

BBQWhales for Lunch's avatar

Sad state of Affairs when both China CCP and Russia's Putin have higher credibility, reason and rational then USA Leadership.

Grasshopper Kaplan's avatar

A new war since viruganda lost steam

Will potentially be the downfall of the American regime

About the TRUTH!'s avatar

Ukraine needs to come clean and in the sunlight provide evidence of what the Biden's activity in Ukraine was, what they did, who they worked with, who paid them, etc... then and only the should the USA think about helping them.

Helping Ukraine should involve sending arms, bombs, maybe some aviation assets - BUT NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND!

BBQWhales for Lunch's avatar

We've been at WAR for 24 Years. Its a Bipartisan Effort. America is in the Business of War. But who was putting a stop to it - Trump. And where is he, they drove him out of town on a rail. And now with Biden - War is Back. Vote for Change. Blaming Neocons with BushW? Really, so Biden is a Republican Neocon too. Its Bipartisan. This is BIDEN, a Democrat. And by the way, who was against Trump - the Neocons. Its 2022, catch up. We need fundamental change in Wash DC - Both Parties need to go.

Susan Suehr's avatar

I say let Russia and Ukraine work out their issues themselves.

Gary Stone's avatar

War with Russia is part of the 16 year plan and would have been triggered by Killary. There is no reason to think that the plan has changed.

Jasonn's avatar

Ike warned America of the "Military Industrial Complex" on his way out the door. No one listened.

StokelyCoalBurn's avatar

I'm not so sure that JFK did not listen. He didn't escalate Vietnam as he was expected to do.

Sam Adams's avatar

Democrats love starting wars. From Wilson's WW1 to FDR's instigation of the Pacific War, to Truman, JFK, LBJ, Clinton, Obama, and now the Clown from Scranton.

I believe that Will Rogers nailed it back in the 30s...

"This country has come to feel the same when Congress is in session as when the baby gets hold of a hammer."

We had no new wars for four years thanks to Trump. I guess Nancy Pelosi needs a few more millions from Insider Trading with the MIC stocks before she mounts her broom and flies off to Florida.

Paul Graham's avatar

BLUF: Invite Russia to join NATO. The West and the former Soviet Union have common enemies in China and Islam. Think how much capital would be freed up if The Great Game stopped. For the chickenhawks, there is still an enemy. For the EU, no more threat from the East.

Sam Adams's avatar

I've been saying that since 1991 when the wall came down and the USSR crumbled by our great "leaders" profit from the deaths and misery of others.

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Jan 20, 2022Edited
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Paul Graham's avatar

In theory, the five sided wind tunnel should be seeing an annual $100B windfall by simply not being in Afghanistan. That money got sucked up in the latest NDAA without a second’s pause and went where? It would take some serious auditing to figure out where all this money is being pissed away.